RICHARD J. BRENNEKE

the witness hereinbefore named, having been previously cautioned and sworn, or affirmed, to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth testified as follows:

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1blank.gif - 0.0 K and I said, because I tried everybody in the U.S. Government

2blank.gif - 0.0 K first and they sure as hell werenít going to help.

3blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Well, we havenít asked you about that effort that you are

4blank.gif - 0.0 K referring to, to try to stop the operation, and I think my

5blank.gif - 0.0 K associate will ask you about that in a moment.

6blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Sure

7blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. I think, finally, I want to ask you if you have any

8blank.gif - 0.0 K knowledge of the money that you're talking about coming from the

9blank.gif - 0.0 K Gotti organization being used for any other purposes, other than

10blank.gif - 0.0 K depositing in the bank accounts for the CIA?

11blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Sure. We had to run the operations at Nella, for instance.

12blank.gif - 0.0 K The training facilities at Nella had to be paid for.

13blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Now, where is Nella?

14blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Nella is about 10 miles out of Mena, north.

15blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. North of the Mena Airport. We've not talked about that, Mr.

16blank.gif - 0.0 K Brenneke. Can you tell us what you know about Nella; what it

17blank.gif - 0.0 K is, and for what purposes it was established?

18blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Sure. Nella was a training base for military and

19blank.gif - 0.0 K paramilitary folks from south of the border, Mexico, Panama.

20blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Who managed the base? Who operated the base?

21blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Don't know the names of the operators.

22blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. What agency operated the base?

23blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Central Intelligence Agency, as far as I knew.

24blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Did you know anyone from the agency that was responsible

25blank.gif - 0.0 K for the operation?

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1blank.gif - 0.0 K A. I knew the names of some of the people over there. I

2blank.gif - 0.0 K didn't spend much time at Mena, so I'd have to answer that by

3blank.gif - 0.0 K saying, no, I really don't know. I did know one of the folks who

4blank.gif - 0.0 K was a flight instructor over there, and that was Terry Reed.

5blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Terry Reed.

6blank.gif - 0.0 K A. And on another occasion, I did provide Mr. Reed with a

7blank.gif - 0.0 K deposition in a case in which he was acquitted.

8blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Mr. Brenneke, I have here in my hand a copy of a videotaped

9blank.gif - 0.0 K deposition which was presented as evidence in the caseUnited States

10blank.gif - 0.0 K District Court for the District of Kansas in the case United

11blank.gif - 0.0 K States of America, Plaintiff versus Terry Kent Reed, Defendant.

12blank.gif - 0.0 K And I will ask you if you can identify this document?

13blank.gif - 0.0 K A. (Witness viewing document.) Yes, sir. That is the

14blank.gif - 0.0 K testimony that I gave under oath in Portland, Oregon.

15blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. This is a transcript of you testimony is that correct?

16blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Thatís correct.

17blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. This is not a deposition. Iím sorry. This is a transcript

18blank.gif - 0.0 K of your videotaped testimony?

19blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Thatís correct. I was testifying.

20blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. And you can identify that?

21blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Yes, that is correct. I identify it as such and --

22blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Then I would like to offer that as an exhibit, number, I

23blank.gif - 0.0 K suppose this is 1, to your testimony.

24blank.gif - 0.0 K (Deposition Exhibit 1 was marked.)

25blank.gif - 0.0 K MR. ALEXANDER: Off the record a second.

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1blank.gif - 0.0 K (Off-the-record.)

2blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. (BY MR. ALEXANDER) Mr. Brenneke, I don't want to dwell on

3blank.gif - 0.0 K this too much at this point. But I think it's important just to

4blank.gif - 0.0 K summarize the connection between the Mena CIA operation and the

5blank.gif - 0.0 K Nella CIA operation. And can you just tell us briefly what

6blank.gif - 0.0 K distinction there was, if any, and whether or not these

7blank.gif - 0.0 K operations were one in the same? And let's move onto something

8blank.gif - 0.0 K else after you have explained that.

9blank.gif - 0.0 K A. The operations were one in the same. The equipment that

10blank.gif - 0.0 K was used at Mena would frequently transport people and equipment

11blank.gif - 0.0 K to the truck, for instance, you know, would drive up to Nella

12blank.gif - 0.0 K and leave people and equipment there.

13blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. So, in other words, the CIA had an operation in Mena which

14blank.gif - 0.0 K included Nella?

15blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Yes.

16blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. And was that operation given a code name, do you know?

17blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Not that Iím familiar with right off-hand. I donít recall

18blank.gif - 0.0 K one right off-hand.

19blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. The other thing we may need to do is to pick up on the

20blank.gif - 0.0 K question of the money laundering. Money was paid to you by the

21blank.gif - 0.0 K Gotti organization. You took it to Panama. It was deposited.

22blank.gif - 0.0 K From Panama it was wired to foreign accounts you said in

23blank.gif - 0.0 K Switzerland and Spain and other countries?

24blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Correct.

25blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Did you establish an account in the United States to get

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1blank.gif - 0.0 K that money back into this country?

2blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Yeah, I did. I established an account at Brown Brothers

3blank.gif - 0.0 K Harriman in New York City.

4blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Brown Brothers Harriman; is that a bank?

5blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Thatís a bank in New York City.

6blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. And when did you establish that account?

7blank.gif - 0.0 K A. That one probably goes back to around 1980.

8blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. I see.

9blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Itís an old account.

10blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. How do you know that the money that you picked up and that

11blank.gif - 0.0 K you received in Mena from the, organization, took to

12blank.gif - 0.0 K Panama, wired to bank accounts in Europe, came back to the

13blank.gif - 0.0 K United States?

14blank.gif - 0.0 K A. I ordered the transfer of funds.

15blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. And to whom did you report these actions?

16blank.gif - 0.0 K A. I reported them to Don Gregg, Bob Kerritt, Bob Ellis, and

17blank.gif - 0.0 K from time-to-time other people that would be serving in --

18blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. And youíre saying that you have notes of these

19blank.gif - 0.0 K conversations in your records?

20blank.gif - 0.0 K A. I not only have notes, I have letters that I wrote to some

21blank.gif - 0.0 K of these people.

22blank.gif - 0.0 K MR. ALEXANDER: I see. I think thatís all I

23blank.gif - 0.0 K have. Thank you very much, Mr. Brenneke. I would now defer to

24blank.gif - 0.0 K my associate who may wish to ask you some additional questions.

25blank.gif - 0.0 K FURTHER EXAMINATION

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1blank.gif - 0.0 K BY MR. FARRIS:

2blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Mr. Brenneke, Iím Chad Farris. We met this morning for the

3blank.gif - 0.0 K first time. And I just have a few questions based on the

4blank.gif - 0.0 K testimony youíve given this morning.

5blank.gif - 0.0 K You testified that you had complained about the use of

6blank.gif - 0.0 K drugs in this endeavor you were involved in directly to Mr.

7blank.gif - 0.0 K Gregg, who was on, at that time, the Vice-Presidentís staff; is

8blank.gif - 0.0 K that right?

9blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Thatís correct.

10blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Why, in your role -- given your role and participation in

11blank.gif - 0.0 K this endeavor, would you care about the use of drugs as part of

12blank.gif - 0.0 K this plan?

13blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Because when my son was sixteen years old, he -- my wife

14blank.gif - 0.0 K and I were made aware of the fact that he was a drug user by his

15blank.gif - 0.0 K -- by virtue of his behavior. We put him through a number of

16blank.gif - 0.0 K treatment programs. He disappeared, and for three and a half

17blank.gif - 0.0 K years we didnít know whether he was dead or alive. He is now

18blank.gif - 0.0 K twenty-six years old. Heís got the mental and emotional

19blank.gif - 0.0 K capacity of a thirteen year old, and heís still a drug user.

20blank.gif - 0.0 K Thatís my only child.

21blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. So at the time that you learned that drugs were involved in

22blank.gif - 0.0 K this operation, then that would have already happened to your

23blank.gif - 0.0 K son; is that right?

24blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Thatís right.? That happened in -- on Halloween night in

25blank.gif - 0.0 K 1980.

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1blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. How long after you became aware of the use or involvement

2blank.gif - 0.0 K of drugs in the operation did you file the complaint or lodge

3blank.gif - 0.0 K the complaint with Mr. Gregg?

4blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Immediately.

5blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. And you testified that Mr. Gregg essentially told you just

6blank.gif - 0.0 K to do your job and carry on; is that right?

7blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Carry on, thatís right. Simply carry on and do my job. I

8blank.gif - 0.0 K wasnít hired to do anything else.

9blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. If you were so concerned about the use of drugs in the

10blank.gif - 0.0 K operation because of -- for the reasons youíve described, why

11blank.gif - 0.0 K did you continue to take part in the operation, if you did?

12blank.gif - 0.0 K A. I took part in it long enough to disassociate myself from

13blank.gif - 0.0 K it. And I made certain that what I was carrying were not drugs

14blank.gif - 0.0 K on the aircraft that I was flying, with the exception of one

15blank.gif - 0.0 K flight which did contain drugs, which I was forced to take in

16blank.gif - 0.0 K this case at the point of a gun. There was -- to my

17blank.gif - 0.0 K recollection, there was one other flight that went into Texas

18blank.gif - 0.0 K that was again directed out of Langley. I had no choice but to

19blank.gif - 0.0 K fly the mission.

20blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Whatís the time period weíre talking about, between your

21blank.gif - 0.0 K first conversation with Mr. Gregg and the time that you stopped

22blank.gif - 0.0 K participating in this operation?

23blank.gif - 0.0 K A. I cleaned up my portion of it during late 1984, early 1985,

24blank.gif - 0.0 K and by mid-1985 I was essentially out of it. I went back and

25blank.gif - 0.0 K did some work on a hostage negotiation program, spent several

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1blank.gif - 0.0 K months at that. By 1986, I was out of it totally.

2blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. You testified about a trial involving Mr. Rupp, and I

3blank.gif - 0.0 K believe you stated that you testified in that trial. As a

4blank.gif - 0.0 K result of your testimony in that trial, did you have any

5blank.gif - 0.0 K encounters or problems that you can tell us about?

6blank.gif - 0.0 K A. The testimony in that trial was used to indict me for

7blank.gif - 0.0 K perjury, and I was -- Iím sorry. The accusation was making

8blank.gif - 0.0 K false statements before a Federal County. And the false

9blank.gif - 0.0 K statements were that -- Iíll enumerate them as they were

10blank.gif - 0.0 K enumerated in the complaint. And it was a grand jury action, in

11blank.gif - 0.0 K which they said that I lied when I said George was in Paris

12blank.gif - 0.0 K in 1980 to negotiate a delayed release of the hostages, that Don

13blank.gif - 0.0 K Gregg and Bill Casey were there for the same purposes. That I

14blank.gif - 0.0 K lied when I said I worked with CIA as a contractor. And I lied

15blank.gif - 0.0 K when I said Harry Rupp did the same. A subsequent trial in

16blank.gif - 0.0 K 1990, ended in April, after two weeks of trial I was found not

17blank.gif - 0.0 K guilty of any of those charges.

18blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Did Donald Gregg testify against you at the trial?

19blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Yes. Don Gregg, currently our Ambassador to -- the

20blank.gif - 0.0 K American Ambassador to South Korea and residing in Seoul, came

21blank.gif - 0.0 K back to Portland, Oregon to testify against me. And his

22blank.gif - 0.0 K testimony was directly related to where he was on the weekend of

23blank.gif - 0.0 K -- that -- the period of 18, 19 and 20, October, 1980, and he

24blank.gif - 0.0 K offered photographs in evidence stating that they showed he --

25blank.gif - 0.0 K -- him to be on a beach at Bethany Beach, Delaware. We submitted

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1blank.gif - 0.0 K those photographs to a qualified meteorologist who looked at

2blank.gif - 0.0 K them and the weather reports for that specific time period, and

3blank.gif - 0.0 K found that they could not -- the pictures couldnít have been

4blank.gif - 0.0 K taken at that time, the weather was wrong.

5blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. In connection with the charge that you described that was

6blank.gif - 0.0 K filed against you, were you ever offered a plea bargain or --

7blank.gif - 0.0 K A. I sure was. They offered me an opportunity to say that I

8blank.gif - 0.0 K lied on all counts. And if I would do that, there would be a

9blank.gif - 0.0 K guilty plea but no prison time and no fine. And at that time I

10blank.gif - 0.0 K was facing five years in prison and a fine that could have gone

11blank.gif - 0.0 K to $250,000. I had not, too long before that, had to file

12blank.gif - 0.0 K bankruptcy because of harassment and problems that I had had in

13blank.gif - 0.0 K this case. I turned the offer down. The offer was actually

14blank.gif - 0.0 K made to my attorney, who -- Rich Muller, who turned it down on

15blank.gif - 0.0 K my behalf.

16blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Did you serve time in prison?

17blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Iíve never been prison nor have I been convicted of a

18blank.gif - 0.0 K crime. And with this exception, I havenít been charged with a

19blank.gif - 0.0 K crime.

20blank.gif - 0.0 K MR. FARRIS: Letís go off the record just a

21blank.gif - 0.0 K second.

22blank.gif - 0.0 K (Off-the-record.)

23blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. (By MR. FARRIS) Mr. Brenneke, what do you hope to achieve

24blank.gif - 0.0 K by testifying here today? Whatís the purpose of your testimony,

25blank.gif - 0.0 K to you personally?

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