the witness hereinbefore named, having been previously cautioned and sworn, or affirmed, to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth testified as follows:


(501) 372-5115

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1blank.gif - 0.0 K specifically Kennedy International Airport.

2blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Now, do you have any knowledge of the CIA, quote, “black

3blank.gif - 0.0 K bag,” operations at Rich Mountain Aviation?

4blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Can we --

5blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Do you want to take a break there for a second and smoke a

6blank.gif - 0.0 K cigarette?

7blank.gif - 0.0 K A. No. I just would like to tae a break and talk to you for

8blank.gif - 0.0 K a second.

9blank.gif - 0.0 K MR. ALEXANDER: Sure. Let’s go off the record a

10blank.gif - 0.0 K minute.

11 blank.gif - 0.0 K (Off - the - record.)

12blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. (BY MR. ALEXANDER.) Mr. Brenneke, during the break you

13blank.gif - 0.0 K mentioned that you may have misstated the dates of your college.

14blank.gif - 0.0 K Do you want to correct that record?

15blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Yes. I graduated from Seattle University in 1964, and I

16blank.gif - 0.0 K graduated from the University of Toronto with my master’s in

17blank.gif - 0.0 K 1966.

18blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Now, I was asking you about whether or not the CIA had a

19blank.gif - 0.0 K "black bag" operation at Rich Mountain Aviation in Mena,

20blank.gif - 0.0 K Arkansas. And maybe a more interesting way to ask that question

21blank.gif - 0.0 K would be, you knew that you were dealing with criminals; is that

22blank.gif - 0.0 K correct?

23blank.gif - 0.0 K A. That's correct, sir.

24blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. You were dealing with criminals that were transporting and

25blank.gif - 0.0 K selling cocaine in the United States?


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1blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Yes.

2blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. You were working for the federal government agency known as

3blank.gif - 0.0 K the Central Intelligence Agency. In a sort of man-on-the-street

4blank.gif - 0.0 K vernacular, how do you keep these guys honest? I mean, do you

5blank.gif - 0.0 K -- what precautions did you take and the CIA to know whether or

6blank.gif - 0.0 K not they were dealing with this cargo in the manner in which it

7blank.gif - 0.0 K was intended?

8blank.gif - 0.0 K A. The general procedure and the procedure specifically used

9blank.gif - 0.0 K in the case of Rich Mountain Aviation was to go through the

10blank.gif - 0.0 K files from time-to-time to be sure that there were no papers

11blank.gif - 0.0 K being kept back that would link the CIA to the activities there,

12blank.gif - 0.0 K and if they were, they were removed from the file.

13blank.gif - 0.0 K at such things as income tax returns and bank statements to make

14blank.gif - 0.0 K sure that the people with whom we were dealing were not stealing

15blank.gif - 0.0 K more than their fair share.

16blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. We will -- and so you checked on Hampton, did you?

17blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Yes, I did.

18blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. And what did you discover?

19blank.gif - 0.0 K A. I discovered that Mr. Hampton was not stealing more than

20blank.gif - 0.0 K his fair share, and in general was performing the services that

21blank.gif - 0.0 K he was -- that he had agreed to provide.

22blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Now, what had he agreed to provide?

23blank.gif - 0.0 K A. He provided landing facilities, a place to store the

24blank.gif - 0.0 K aircraft, assistance with mechanical problems on the aircraft or

25blank.gif - 0.0 K avionics problems on the aircraft if they were necessary to get


(501) 372-5115

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1blank.gif - 0.0 K it out of there, a storage area for drugs that were brought in,

2blank.gif - 0.0 K a storage area for weapons that were taken out, a place where

3blank.gif - 0.0 K people could rest or wait for a truck to haul them out to Nella.

4blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. And how much did the CIA pay him for his services?

5blank.gif - 0.0 K A. I don’t know the dollar figures. That’s -- the figure I

6blank.gif - 0.0 K saw on his tax returns at one point indicated that he had

7blank.gif - 0.0 K received something in excess of $10,000.

8blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Who would have handled the payment to Hampton for the CIA?

9blank.gif - 0.0 K A. My understanding was that the man I was working for at the

10blank.gif - 0.0 K time paid him, and that was Bob Kerritt.

11blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Bob Kerritt. Can you identify where he might reside?

12blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Mr. Kerritt is a full-time employee of the Central

13blank.gif - 0.0 K Intelligence Agency. And when I first met him, I checked on

14blank.gif - 0.0 K that by waiting for him to return to Washington, calling

15blank.gif - 0.0 K information in the D.C. area, got the phone number for the

16blank.gif - 0.0 K switchboard at the CIA, called and asked for him by name, and I

17blank.gif - 0.0 K got him.

18blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Okay. Now, how did you check on Reale; did you check on --

19blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Well, I had already seen him. He and -- I mean, I had seen

20blank.gif - 0.0 K him in New York. I knew who he was. And, as I say, we’d been

21blank.gif - 0.0 K dealing with these folks in New York since 1968-69.

22blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. When you say “we,” you mean the Central Intelligence

23blank.gif - 0.0 K Agency?

24blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Yes, sir.

25blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Now, did the Gotti organization, through Reale, pay money


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1blank.gif - 0.0 K to the CIA for the drugs?

2blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Yes, they did.

3blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Do you know how much money?

4blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Firsthand knowledge, somewhere in the $50,000,000 bracket.

5blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. How do you know how much money?

6blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Because I banked that money for them in Panama City, and

7blank.gif - 0.0 K ultimately transferred it to other locations in Europe.

8blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Did they pay you in cash?

9blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Yes, generally.

10blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. And what do you mean “generally;” what other forms did they

11blank.gif - 0.0 K pay you in?

12blank.gif - 0.0 K A. You’re given -- I owned an aircraft in Mexico City for a

13blank.gif - 0.0 K while that was payment for some work I had done.

14blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. I see.

15blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Occasionally there were items like that.

16blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. So what would be the procedure for you to receive the

17blank.gif - 0.0 K payment from the Gotti organization for the drugs?

18blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Generally the money was -- okay. Let me restate that. The

19blank.gif - 0.0 K money was given to us in cash.

20blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. "Us," you mean the CIA?

21blank.gif - 0.0 K A. "Us," meaning the people I worked with, who were also

22blank.gif - 0.0 K associated with the Central Intelligence Agency. We would

23blank.gif - 0.0 K transfer that money to banks in Central and South America. And

24blank.gif - 0.0 K from there transfer via accounts that I had established back

25blank.gif - 0.0 K in 1970 -- they were accounts which I was a beneficial


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1blank.gif - 0.0 K holder and the named signee on it.

2blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Let’s take a payment from Mr. Reale in cash, and follow the

3blank.gif - 0.0 K procedure step-by-step as you know it for the transmittal of

4blank.gif - 0.0 K that money from the Gotti organization to the Central

5blank.gif - 0.0 K Intelligence Agency?

6blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Okay. That money was delivered to us in cash. There were

7blank.gif - 0.0 K -- there were occasions where there were wire transfers, but

8blank.gif - 0.0 K generally -- the generally followed method was cash.

9blank.gif - 0.0 K be stored in the aircraft on its turn trip to Panama. Once it

10blank.gif - 0.0 K reached Panama, we would put it into a bank account. Which at

11blank.gif - 0.0 K that time was in the Banquo DePanama?

12blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Banquo DePanama?

13blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Yeah.

14blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. All right.

15blank.gif - 0.0 K A. And the account name was the initials IFMA, which was a

16blank.gif - 0.0 K company that I set up in Panama City in 1970, I believe, It may

17blank.gif - 0.0 K have been ‘69

18blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Did you get a receipt for deposit?

19blank.gif - 0.0 K A. No, sir. We would not get a receipt for deposit. The

20blank.gif - 0.0 K money would be deposited there, but it would be subsequently and

21blank.gif - 0.0 K then almost immediately transferred to -- the transfer points in

22blank.gif - 0.0 K general followed this way; they came -- it came to Spain or

23blank.gif - 0.0 K Liechtenstein, from there it went to either -- it went to Monte

24blank.gif - 0.0 K Carlo, and the ultimate destination was Zurich or Geneva but, in

25blank.gif - 0.0 K any case, Switzerland.


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1blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. The money was given to you by the Gotti -- the agent for

2blank.gif - 0.0 K the Gotti organization?

3blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Yes, sir. And there were other people besides the man that

4blank.gif - 0.0 K I’ve named. And I’d have to see photographs, but I can surely

5blank.gif - 0.0 K pick them out for you.

6blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Well, we can return to the manner in which the money was

7blank.gif - 0.0 K transferred at a subsequent time. I’m truing here to identify

8blank.gif - 0.0 K the source of the money --

9blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Yes.

10blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. -- and the place that the money went to, and who received

11blank.gif - 0.0 K the money. And you have said that that went to the CIA?

12blank.gif - 0.0 K A. To CIA accounts that I established on their behalf in the

13blank.gif - 0.0 K late sixties and early seventies. I still have the

14blank.gif - 0.0 K incorporation papers on them.

15blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. How do you know that the money went to the CIA itself?

16blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Because I would transfer personally that money out of that

17blank.gif - 0.0 K account into others.

18blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Did you ever talk to any people in the CIA about the money?

19blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Sure. I talked to Mr. Kerritt from time-to-time --

21blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Who is Mr. Ellis, can you tell us, and --

22blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Ellis is an employee and was an associate of Mr. Kerritt’s.

23blank.gif - 0.0 K Robert Ellis is his name, E-L-L-I-S. He was an associate of

24blank.gif - 0.0 K Kerritt’s. The two used to work together frequently.

25blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. What other CIA agents knew of this operation, and knew that


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1blank.gif - 0.0 K the money came from the Gotti organization?

2blank.gif - 0.0 K A. I’d have to say Harry Rupp would be someone who would know

3blank.gif - 0.0 K that, because Harry at that time had a gold importing business

4blank.gif - 0.0 K in Switzerland.

5blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Can you recall any conversations you had with any of the

6blank.gif - 0.0 K CIA agents about the money, and tell us the nature of that

7blank.gif - 0.0 K conversation, the scope of it?

8blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Sure. When I found that we were bringing drugs into the

9blank.gif - 0.0 K United States, and that we were receiving money which was being

10blank.gif - 0.0 K put into accounts which I knew to belong to the United States

11blank.gif - 0.0 K Government, as I'd set them up specifically for that purpose, I

12blank.gif - 0.0 K called Mr. Don Gregg, who was a CIA officer with whom I was

13blank.gif - 0.0 K acquainted, and complained about the nature of what we were

14blank.gif - 0.0 K doing.

15blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Now, who is Mr. Don Gregg?

16blank.gif - 0.0 K A. At that time, he was George Bush - Vice-President George

17blank.gif - 0.0 K Bush's National Security Advisor.

18blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. And do you recall the date that you had this conversation

19blank.gif - 0.0 K with Mr. Gregg?

20blank.gif - 0.0 K A. I am more than willing to look for it in my telephone

21blank.gif - 0.0 K records.

22blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. And when you discover that, you can provide it for us?

23blank.gif - 0.0 K A. I will provide you with --

24blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. You have records of the conversation?

25 A. Yes, I do.


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1blank.gif - 0.0 KQ. And will you make a copy of that record available for

2blank.gif - 0.0 K this --

3blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Yes, sir, I will. Including my handwritten notes that are

4blank.gif - 0.0 K contemporaneous.

5blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Now, you don't have any notes with you at this time?

6blank.gif - 0.0 K A. No, I do not.

7blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. But do you recall the conversation with Mr. Gregg?

8blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Very well.

9blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. And can you tell us what you remember about that

10blank.gif - 0.0 K conversation?

11blank.gif - 0.0 K A. I surely can. I was told that it was not my business, what

12blank.gif - 0.0 K I was flying in and out of the country. That I was hired to do

13blank.gif - 0.0 K specific things, and if I would do those things and not pay any

14blank.gif - 0.0 K attention to anything else, we would all be very, very happy. I

15blank.gif - 0.0 K didn't like that.

16blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Well, what else did he say?

17blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Shut up and do your job.

18blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. He said, "Shut up and do your job?"

19blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Essentially, yes.

20blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. Did you have any further contact with him?

21blank.gif - 0.0 K A. I talked to him in 19 --

22blank.gif - 0.0 K Q. "Him," I'm talking about Mr. Gregg?

23blank.gif - 0.0 K A. Yes. Subsequently I talked to Mr. Gregg on a number of

24blank.gif - 0.0 K occasions as well as to other people in the Vice-President's

25blank.gif - 0.0 K office to voice my concern over the use of drugs in -- importing


(501) 372-5115

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